ColemanNation Podcast – Episode 195
RC (@RonColeman): Hello! Today, joining us is Gary Gindler. I frequently tell you this is one of my oldest friends on the internet, and it’s great. Gary and I are strangers. We know each other from X, and it came to my attention that he wrote a book, “Left anti-Semitism,” and I don’t think he means that anybody has Left anti-Semitism. So I wanted to talk about his book, which is coming out in 10 or so days from when we recorded this, so you’ll be able to get it on Amazon. I think you probably could order it now. Yes. Savings, pre-order, price guarantee. So, Gary, welcome to the program. Nice to meet you.
GG (@Gary_US): Nice to meet you, Ronald.
RC: Gary, what’s your story? Where do you come from? You don’t sound like me, with a Brooklyn accent.
GG: I was born in Ukraine, but lived most of my life in Russia. I got a PhD in theoretical physics in 1988. I am a physicist by trade. I came to the United States legally. I am a small business owner. After living in the United States for quite a few years, I switched to being a conservative columnist for outlets like American Thinker, then abandoned that and started writing books.
RC: What other books?
GG: I published two, and the third is coming. The reason I abandoned writing articles and started writing books is a mess I found in my American friends’ heads. It’s a complete mess to the degree that I was not able to speak freely with my neighbors, with my friends, with my relatives who came to the United States before me or after me. So, I decided to approach the political and ideological situation in the United States from the theoretical physics perspective. That means…
RC: Is that your background educationally?
GG: Yes. I am a physicist by trade.
RC: Everyone from Russia is a physicist, right? Or an engineer.
GG: Some of them are mathematicians [laughter] or philosophers. Now I am a physicist-turned-philosopher, and my approach is to apply axiomatics to political terms to make sure we are on the same page, because I am constantly bombarded with: “Hitler is a left-winger or a right-winger.” I am just tired of having to explain what happened. When I got completely tired, I wrote a book about the subject to definitely prove who he was: a socialist or right-wing conservative. In order to achieve that, I had to go back to the real foundation of political philosophy: who are the Right, who are the Left.
Well, everybody knows where they came from, but nobody realized that they evolved. They evolved over the two centuries. And we have to trace that evolution. That evolution ended when Joseph Stalin came to power in Soviet Russia. What did he do? He was also tired of all this mess in the heads of the followers, useful idiots, and political opponents. He decided to reestablish, once and for all, who is the Right and who is the Left. What he did was put himself at the center of the political universe. So, if you slightly deviate from Papa Stalin to the Left, you are ultra-leftist.
RC: So Trotsky was a left deviationist, right?
GG: Absolutely. Yes.
RC: Kamenev was the right deviationist.
GG: Yes. That’s why these Left and Right deviations came to be. Well, originally it was used for the internal intra-communist struggle in Soviet Russia, and then it spilled into the West. It all happens in the 30s. But what happens in 30s is also in parallel with all these events in the Soviet Union: Frankfurt School of Socialism packed their luggage and moved to the United States, and most of them were Stalinists, left-wing Stalinists, and they brought that idea that Stalin is at the center of the political universe.
RC: I’m sorry for interrupting you, but why would they do that? Because that was the official position of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and therefore of the World Communist Movement.
GG: Yes. And everybody knew what would happen if you deviated from that official position, especially in the Soviet Union, especially if you’re a Jew. So, I’m not going to describe in detail all these twists and turns, but here we go. Yes, Hitler was a left-winger and right-winger at the same time. It sounds like a paradox, but it’s not. Everything depends on the frame of reference.
Frame of reference is a term from physics, right? But I apply it to political philosophy. Everything has to be measured against a certain frame of reference. And in physics, there are two major frames of reference, relative and absolute. So, relative to Stalin, Hitler was a right-winger.
RC: It’s that simple.
GG: That’s simple. But relative to other points of view, he was a left-winger.
RC: So people appreciate how much of inter-regime and inter-party discourse in the Third Reich involved invocations of comradeship and political questions. In other words, the politicization of administrative or policy matters. And you know they used German terms that welded the racial component to the socialist component. They would refer to national comrades. But it was still this idea of comrades of the people. You know, they always said Stalin loved the people but hated people.
GG: Yes. That’s their standard left-wing lexicon. Nazis and fascists were not a deviation from the overall Leftist vector of development. It was a logical continuation of the Leftist development that began in prehistoric times and was emphasized by Karl Marx.
Anyway, to conclude this introduction of who the Left are and who the Right are, I have to state with pretty much mathematical, axiomatic precision that both opposites, Left and Right, are totalitarian in nature. However, the difference is that the Left argues for total government control over the population. The Right argues for total control of the population over the government. That’s the difference. And what I just said, I describe in my first book as the individual-state paradigm or man-state paradigm. And when I published it, there were a lot of discussions. I was invited to a lot of podcasts, and one of the smart guys said, “Okay, Gary, that’s very interesting, but it’s pretty much cornered into the academic world. What is the relationship with the real world, with the real problems, your abstract definitions of Left and Right? What about the application of your idea in the real world?”
So, I started thinking about it, and the first thing that came to me was anti-Semitism. I decided to split the entire anti-Semitic world into the Left camp and the Right camp. And to my big surprise, Ron, [laughter] unbelievable surprise, I found that the right-wing anti-Semites are a minority. They do exist, but they are treated as a marginal group among conservatives. But on the left-hand side, anti-Semitism was and is and probably will be mainstream.
That’s why I called my book “Left anti-Semitism.” It covers maybe 90-95% of all acts of anti-Semitism in the world. And I understand if some Leftists are watching us right now, it’s not pleasant to observe and to understand, but that’s the reality of it. Yes, most of the people who promote, cherish, and practice anti-Semitism in the modern world are left-wingers.
RC: What’s it about, Gary? Why? What is it? Why does it work for them?
GG: Okay, it’s not just work for them. It’s one of the most lovable tools that they invented. See, anti-Semitism existed through centuries, and then all of a sudden, in 1879, German socialist Wilhelm Marr offered the term anti-Semitism. The term had been used in linguistic studies before. He didn’t invent it, but he took the term and reformulated it as part of the political strategy. At that time, left-wingers in Germany were fighting for their survival. They lost elections. Their previous generation of leftists lost everything. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels lost everything. They were not at the tip of the iceberg.
So, they had to do something to create, first, reliable voting blocks. Second, win the elections. In my book, I provide a very interesting parallel, Ron, between Wilhelm Marr’s “invention” of anti-Semitism as we understand it and Thomas Edison.
RC: Edison, who invented the light bulb?
GG: Yes. Edison invented the light bulb in the same year as anti-Semitism was “invented.” We know that Edison didn’t invent the light bulb. He made it practical. Wilhelm Marr didn’t invent anti-Semitism. He made it a practical tool for political struggle. That’s what he did.
RC: That’s very good.
GG: And I trace how it all happened. A big portion of the book is a description of 19th-century German socialists Karl Marx, Fredrick Engels, Wilhelm Marr, and others who contributed to the development of the idea that anti-Semitism should not be considered a primitive hatred of everything Jewish. No. What did Marr actually write and think about it? He said, “Okay, you spit on a Jew, you burn a Jewish house, you rape a Jewish woman, you kill a Jew. Good. Excellent. I like it.” He said, “But don’t forget that these actions will not increase the bank account of the perpetrator, will not help us to win the election. It’s all fruitless.” So, he said—and that is his contribution, which is cherished by the left-wingers to his present day—anti-Semitism, in his world, has to have two steps.
First step—attack a Jew, but keep in mind that we have to gain tangible benefits from that attack. We must always look forward. Brainless attacking of Jews will not lead us anywhere. A countless number of Jew haters existed throughout history, and they have gained no political power. That was his argument. And when this argument was laid out for 19th-century socialists, they said, “Aha, we found something we can run on,” and they continued to run on that idea.
So, my book is not just an encyclopedia of Jewish grievances. There are so many books on the subject. If you or any of our viewers go to Google and type “anti-Semitism,” I bet you will get millions of links, thousands of books, and hundreds of thousands of research papers. Why? Because there is an army of historians who are working on the subject.
But my book is not a chronicle of Jewish suffering. It’s better to say what my book is not about than what it’s about. My book does not answer the question “What happened?” There is an army of historians who answer that question. My book doesn’t answer the question “When did it happen?” and “How did it happen?” No, as I said, thousands of researchers have access to archives and have uncovered how it happened.
My book, on the contrary, answers the simple, rarely asked question: “Why?” Why did it happen?
RC: So, let me ask you a question. If Marr was the one who made anti-Semitism pay, made it practical, how do we reckon the fact that so many expulsions of Jews involved stripping them of their wealth? Certainly, you know the expulsion from Spain, from numerous German city-states. I don’t know if that was a characteristic of Muslim anti-Semitism, but help me help me understand how those are different.
GG: Okay. As I said, political anti-Semitism (it’s a rarely used term, “political anti-Semitism,” because anti-Semitism is by definition political) has two steps. First, attack a Jew. Second, gain the benefit, political benefit for the Gentiles. How to distinguish between a primitive Jew hatred and anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism? If a spear of attack is on a Jew and ends with a Jew, that’s a primitive, vulgar Jew hatred. It doesn’t lead to any benefit. But if the aim of the attack is a Jew, but the actual target is a non-Jewish population that needs politically organizing, that’s anti-Semitism.
That’s what they do. Wilhelm Marr and, after him, Adolf Hitler were classical socialist political organizers. Well, in the United States, we also have political organizers.
RC: So, in other words, during the era of monarchy, you didn’t need this.
GG: Yes, you need it. I will give you an example, a classic example. 1492 expulsion of Jews from Spain. Monarchy, Isabella and Ferdinand. They face the following situation. How much money does the kingdom have? Almost zero. They just defeated the last enclave of Muslims in Granada. It’s southern Spain. And they have no money.
On top of that, they have a terrible situation with their noblemen. Don’t forget it was the end of the 15th century. It was not the 16th or 17th century. Absolutism didn’t exist by that time. It will come later in the French kingdom.
Okay. And what they needed was to overcome the political influence of their noblemen. But confronting them head-to-head was impossible. They didn’t have anything to confront them with. So, what they devised to do was very clever. They attack their finances. They wanted to bankrupt them. And the way to bankrupt them is to bankrupt their financiers. And who were bankers for these noblemen in medieval Spain? Jews.
RC: But my point is that when I asked you, when I posed that as a challenge to your definition. I thought you responded that we’re talking about political benefit. You’re saying this was, although there was a payoff in the form of a financial benefit. I have seen it argued that people underestimate the extent to which the appropriation of Jewish wealth was a major driver of Hitler’s policies because his government was being run into the ground financially by his policies.
But Ferdinand and Isabella didn’t have that. Gold is good. We know how much the Spanish love gold, but they had a political problem on their hand too. Not in the sense of politics like electoral politics.
GG: No. It was court politics. It was not electoral politics. It was internal to the Spanish kingdom’s politics. Again, they gained tremendous political benefits by attacking Jews who, in turn, bankrupted their political rivals in court. What they did was gain pretty much what they wanted in terms of influence.
And, by the way, an additional note on why those two monarchs were very smart. They didn’t know what would happen after the Jews were expelled. They suspected a financial crisis. And they were right. So, what did they decide to do? They decided to give Christopher Columbus permission to go to the New World and bring New World riches to Spain, and that’s exactly what he did. So the Spanish crown was saved after the financial crisis with the absence of Jews by Christopher Columbus.
That’s what happened. And it shows you one interesting positive thing: nobody in Spain at that time hated Jews. The word “hate” does not apply. Likewise, it doesn’t apply to well-known anti-Semites like Napoleon. He was a real anti-Semite. However, he never hated Jews. He used Jews for his own political purposes. The same was Adolf Hitler. He never personally hated Jews, not particular Jews, nor abstract, collectivized Jews. No, he used Jews to reach his political goals.
RC: But wasn’t it so that Daniel Goldhagen argues that the Inquisition did hate Jews, and his argument, I think, is that the Inquisition was the first one with the idea of bloodborne evil of the Jews, that the racial purity.
GG: Yes. But that was the Inquisition. That wasn’t Ferdinand and Isabella. It was an Inquisition because many Jews decided not to leave and made a switch. They formally adopted Christianity, and they thought, “Okay, that’s over.” Well, that cleverness never worked out. Actually, some of them got imprisoned. Some of them were burnt at the stake. Some of them survived. But it never worked the way conversos (how they call them) intended. The Inquisition was designed not as a political or financial tool but as a religious tool to root out not real Christians. People who pretend to be Christians but practice Judaism or any other religion at home.
RC: Would you say that the Inquisition was an example of Jew hate, not anti-Semitism?
GG: No, it was not anti-Semitism. It was religious intolerance of anything but Catholicism.
RC: Okay. Nobody singled out Jews at that time. They single out everybody who is not Catholic, including Muslims, which a lot of moderns don’t appreciate, given that this is after the Reconquista. There’s a reaction to the centuries-long Muslim occupation of Spain.
GG: Yes. As a matter of fact, three weeks ago I visited Granada and the palace where the Expulsion decree was signed. The throne disintegrated from that time in 1492. So, it’s an empty space at the corner of the big palace. It was interesting. I took very interesting pictures over there.
RC: So, now let’s move up 600 years. What’s going on now?
GG: My book, again, emphasizes that many anti-Jewish events are simply Jew hatred. But anti-Semitism is not simple Jew hatred or harassment. It’s institutionalized enslavement of non-Jews. Think about it. It’s because Left, as I said at the beginning of this recording, aims at total control of government over the population. So, if they deploy this tool, they say, “Okay, it helps us to control the non-Jewish population.” See, it’s a very sick Machiavellian idea: target Jews to control non-Jews. That’s what they did, and it came only after realizing that the foundation of that thinking is a left-wing thing.
So, I trace all this stuff moving forward 600 years to Karl Marx. Marx was ethnically Jewish, but he was not raised as a Jew; it’s not the point. The point is that Leftists still consider Karl Marx as a prophet of justice. However, this prophet of justice wrote that money is the jealous God of Israel. Under Israel, he understood Jews. He criticized bankers because some of them were Jews, unfortunately for everybody who followed him and who didn’t understand the simple fact that he was not just criticizing Jews or bankers. He criticized the capitalistic way of life, the very idea of individual success, moral independence, and self-made identity. He was against it.
I wrote in my book that for Marx, the Jew was not a person. He was a metaphor for capitalism itself.
RC: Absolutely.
GG: To destroy capitalism, Marx had first to destroy a Jew, and then he started the ball rolling. He never emphasized structurally what anti-Semitism should look like. He was more on a primitive hatred. He was an equal opportunity hater. He hated everybody: Jews, Protestants, Muslims, he hated everybody. After Karl Marx, August Bebel, and other leaders of the left-wing movement decided to use it. And when they met, by the way, Karl Marx and Wilhelm Marr, they didn’t establish a good relationship because both understood that they were aiming at the very top of the socialist movement in the world. There is only room for one at the top of the socialist Olympus. They didn’t establish good relationships, and they exchanged, you know, pretty harsh words against each other because they were enemies on the way to the top.
Moving forward another 200 years, Israel was established. And what happened? It happened right after World War II. And the same Joseph Stalin contributed to what we currently call anti-Zionism. Zionism is a special word for Jewish nationalism. All other nationalisms don’t have a special name. German nationalism doesn’t have a special name. It’s called German nationalism. British nationalism doesn’t have a special name.
RC: People are supposed to be loyal to their class, right? I mean, the Great Patriotic War had thrown off that ideological principle, nationalism in general. I mean, you have all the nations that were part of the Soviet Union. Hence, nationalism in general was something that Stalin was suspicious of Right?
GG: He was suspicious. But what I’m talking about is a different nationalism. If a special word exists for the Jewish nationalism called Zionism, which actually existed for thousands of years without having a name, that’s very important. If a name is not assigned, if a term is not defined, it doesn’t mean that the event or phenomenon doesn’t exist. Typical example: the electron was discovered at the Cavendish Laboratory at the end of the 19th century. Question is: “What about these other electrons? Did they exist before they got [laughter] discovered?” Of course.
So, Zionism also existed. Theodor Herzl assigned it the name Zionism. Immediately after Zionism was popularized, anti-Zionism came to the picture in the same manner as British guys propagate their British nationalism. Anti-British nationalism appears right away. Zionism was not invented but asserted at the end of the 19th century, and anti-Zionism, as anti-Jewish nationalism, kicked off right away.
Well, here is a situation similar to all other terms in science. It appeared, and then it died. Yes, I’m telling you quite a paradoxical thing. Anti-Zionism has died. An original one, because nobody at the moment attacks Jews as nationalists. Everybody attacks Jews, meaning something else. And that something else was created under the leadership of Joseph Stalin, because a new science, or rather pseudoscience, was invented in the Soviet Union after World War II and after the creation of Israel. It’s called Zionology. They apply the prefix anti to this Zionology, and then they come up with anti-Zionism. Anti-Zionism we know today has nothing to do with Jewish nationalism or opposition to it. It means simple rejection of the state of Israel. Simple like that.
And of course, it has a lot of pre-requirements. I always hear: “You say it’s anti-Zionism or anti-Semitism, but it’s primitive hatred.” Nobody hates the State of Israel in the same manner as hating another entity or other people. They hate Israel for quite different reasons because they want to gain political benefits by educating their population to hate that distant object, the size of New Jersey, where we live. Hate it and organize around this unified idea. That’s what they do.
For them, Israel is a phenomenon used for internal political battles. Another explanation: in order to hate somebody, you need an object of hate, right? You cannot hate something abstract and non-existent. You cannot hate planet Mars because it’s somewhere. There are many countries where Jews don’t exist, but anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism proliferate. Take Pakistan. No Jew ever stepped on that soil [laughter]. Yet they practice that day and night. They live by that. They’ve won elections by that.
They have to keep the population under control, and I understand them. I understand rulers of all those “stans”— “stan” means country—they are presiding over an inbred population. There is scientific research that says what percentage of the population is inbred. I believe Pakistan is leading, and Gaza is in second or third place. Keeping the inbred population under control requires extraordinary methods. You cannot reason with those people. They don’t understand reason. You can only coerce them. That’s why, in the seventh century, a new religion was invented to keep the inbred population—unmanaged, uncontrolled—under control.
Islam accounts for approximately 15% of religious teachings. In other religions, the percentage is quite different. In Judaism, it’s quite the opposite. It’s like 80% of Judaism is dedicated to the relationship with God and only 20% deals with day-to-day life, you know, all those 613 rules, whatever, you know the rules. Islam is quite different. I calculated approximately, by analyzing the Quran, that about 5/6 of Islam is secular and about 1/6 of Islam is religious, which teaches its followers to deal with God, obey God, love God, and understand God.
But most of their so-called religion has nothing to do with God. It’s a manual on how to keep a bandit camp under some semblance of order. Muhammad himself was the raider, attacking caravans. So, he had to keep his bandits under control. And Islam was a perfect way to keep unmanageable people manageable.
RC: Gary, I’m really enjoying listening to this because clearly, you’ve really thought through these issues, and I’m definitely going to order the book. I regret that I wasn’t able to read it before we spoke. When we talked about having you on the show, you were very eager, and we want to, plus Passover’s coming. Any ideas for dealing with what we’re seeing in 2025, 2026?
GG: Well, the second part of my book deals with two subjects. First, definition of anti-Semitism because proper definition does not exist. I approached that program with the same axiomatic precision as the previous book; second, how to deal with anti-Semitism, how to defeat anti-Semitism.
As for the definition of anti-Semitism, I emphasize 10 points that it must address. Two of them are unusual. For example, the definition of anti-Semitism must include Jewish anti-Semitism.
RC: Yes.
GG: Unfortunately, this phenomenon exists, and we cannot ignore it.
RC: So, the definition must not center on non-Jews. It has to center on everybody who uses anti-Semitism for political purposes.
GG: Absolutely. Second, the definition of anti-Semitism has to open the door for the eradication of anti-Semitism. If you truly uncover its essence, it shows you how to get rid of it. So, my definition of anti-Semitism is (and I am reading from the book): “Anti-Semitism is a political weaponization of animosity toward the superposition of Jewish achievements of the past, present, and future.”
That definition is radically different from existing definitions, and I understand that. Keep in mind that gatekeepers of the publishing industry, gatekeepers of many universities in the world, are left-wingers, and they don’t allow the Holocaust to be treated as a left-wing enterprise. They would like to isolate the Third Reich, Adolf Hitler, and Anne Frank as the only things that happened from 1933 to 1945. Why? Being isolated allows them to distance themselves from the events. They say, “Oh, it was done by Nazis,” without realizing that there are many people like me and you who understand that Nazis means National Socialists.
RC: Right.
GG: By the way, Germans themselves called National Socialists “Nazi-Sozi.” But it was too long, and they dropped “Sozi” and started calling them Nazi, and it spread. Thus, the socialistic motives of the Nazis were abandoned, forgotten, unfortunately.
That definition, as I said, opens a potential door for eradicating anti-Semitism. Again, eradicating anti-Semitism means, in my world, depriving non-Jews acquiring political benefits of attacking Jews. My approach is: we should not concentrate on stopping attacks on Jews. That’s a fight we will lose because the number of Jews in the world is too small.
However, what we can do is prevent non-Jews from acquiring tangible benefits of attacking Jews. And there are multiple ways to do that. One unexpected supporting case came from Milton Friedman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist. He gave a lecture at one of the universities in Australia, and said that the major problem we have to solve is that we have to make sure that bad people make good decisions. He said, “The way to solve problems is to make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.” Dealing with anti-Semitism must follow a similar recipe.
Again, it’s easy to say how to approach that. I have to revert to my definitions of Left and Right. If anti-Semitism we are dealing with today is primarily on the Left, we have to distance our society from the Leftist ideology, and we have to move to a society with more freedom. Free societies do not require anti-Semitism because it’s a free society by definition. It doesn’t require isolating a group against which everybody else will unite. Free society does not require that. Only unfree societies or people who aim to create unfree societies want to use anti-Semitism.
RC: I think that says it all. Freedom is good for everyone. Freedom, as we say, is good for the Jews.
GG: It’s good for everybody, including the Jews.
RC: That’s the book “Left Anti-Semitism.” Gary, great talking to you.
GG: Nice to talk to you, and I am very glad that you invited me.
RC: Well, you know, nice to meet a neighbor, and I wish you success with the book and with whatever your next project is, and a sweet and meaningful Passover.
GG: Thank you. You too.
RC: Thanks for culminating, folks.
